What are some good examples you can think of where directors insert completely meaningless, pretentious pseudo-symbolism into their films in a desperate attempt to look "deep"? By definition, symbolism is - well, obviously - symbolic of something. But there are many, many, many films which, while attempting to be profound, use pseudo-symbolism that isn't symbolic of anything. Roger Ebert commented on this phenomenon as such: "If you have to ask what it symbolizes, it doesn't."

Faux symbolism most commonly takes the form of random religious imagery thrown in for no reason. One of the most frequent examples is when directors have shots of certain characters on crosses or in crucifixion poses, even though the characters have absolutely nothing to do with Jesus.

While this is very common in arthouse films (e.g. the ones by Lars von Trier), it's also very frequently found in big-budget Hollywood films too. For example, Elysium (2013) has the titular space station look like an inverted pentagram.

Which examples of faux symbolism in movies come to mind for you, /tele/?

The girl with the coloured red coat in Schindler's List.

That stupid fücking plastic bag in American Beauty.

>>2

The girl with the coloured red coat in Schindler's List.

Why is it meaningless? The intent was quite clear.

The girl with the coloured red coat in Schindler's List.

Lol. I just knew someone would mention this.

It's a handy, popular shortcut to thinking. When you absolutely have to post something, ANYthing, and lack thoughts of your own, fall back on the red coat and the plastic bag.

In my experience, the people who most complain about those two things turn out to have been emotionally touched by them and resent having been made to feel.

Completely agree about the girl in the red coat.

Completely disagree about that goddamned plastic bag, which he should have picked up and put in a bin if he was so fascinated by.

which he should have picked up and put in a bin if he was so fascinated by.

Do 'splain, spleen.

What ? Those are some of the best visual symoblisms of modern movies. How are they fake or meaningless ?

"Aw, what a special snowflake this boy is, seeing the hidden beauty in something which is missed by others" - but for this to work there actually needs to be hidden beauty. A plastic bag in the wind is simply ugly, and there's no getting around it.

>>9

"Aw, what a special snowflake this boy is, seeing the hidden beauty in something which is missed by others" - but for this to work there actually needs to be hidden beauty. A plastic bag in the wind is simply ugly, and there's no getting around it.

To be fair, for that person to be special and for the beauty to be hidden it need at least some people to not see any beauty in it, so viewers not seeing it should not brake the concept.

I think it was not the first movie to do it (film a plastic bag dancing in the wind) so it is something many human find beautiful in some way.

Yeah wind blowing things is often used to instill nostalghia and melancholia in the viewer. With a plastic bag I would guess it even reinforces that feeling as it's basically the most light weight thing you could think of. Plus it evokes civlization's decay, which adds to the feeling. Oh and it also evokes some sort of spirit, and randomness in the way it moves.

The whole thing is just a genius idea IMO, it's exactly how symbolism should be. Something that works on an unconscious level, without you having to analytically think about it (though it's always interesting to do the analysis afterwards, try to understand why a certain vsual makes you feel a certain way).

How are they fake or meaningless ?

I can't speak for the OP, but the Schindler's List example is especially insulting since it implies that the Holocaust itself wasn't shocking enough on its own terms, it has to be made even more obvious.

That the holocaust needs to be personified through the image of a child (innocence) in a red coat (tainted by violence) is as blunt as it gets. It's Spielberg at his most cloying and manipulative. He doesn't have enough faith in his audience being horrified by the reality of six million people exterminated all because of a mad man's prejudices, he has to make it "salable" by reducing it to a literal symbol that tugs on the heart strings.

Schindler's List is a film full of disgraceful manipulations that show Spielberg's lack of belief in both the material and the intelligence/sensitivity his audience, but that's easily the most insulting and childish.

Well like I said below the famous expression: A Single Death is a Tragedy; a Million Deaths is a Statistic

Is not totally false, thousand of Lions are hunted every year in Africa, give a name to one, personalize it and do the same for the hunter and it change everything in people mind.

Or other example:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phan_Thi_Kim_Phuc

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malala_Yousafzai

While fighting associated with Boko Haram killed 6,347 civilians in 2014, it is hard for us to put a known face on it, making it hard for us to care, while it was very easy for us to care about the 11 victims in the Charlie Hebdo shooting.

Ok, your opinion makes sense. But you're saying that it's insulting and heavy handed, while anon was saying it's meaningless. Which makes no sense seeing the meaning is quite obvious, as you say.

u r a smug piece of *beep* with no idea what ur are talking about

Answer the questions, anon.

The girl with the coloured red coat in Schindler's List.

Really ? I thought it was a really nice one an appropriate, made me think a bit about the A Single Death is a Tragedy; a Million Deaths is a Statistic.

Also apparently it is inspired from a trial testimony:

Perhaps the most moving image in Steven Spielberg’s epic film”Schindler’s List” is the little girl in the red coat, the only color image in the three-hour black and whitefilm. However,most people do not know that this image is based upon a true story, a story toldat the trial of Adolf Eichmann.

In the PBS documentary, “The Trial of Adolf Eichmann,” this image loses none of its impact when the actual story is told by Assistant Prosecutor (now Supreme Court Judge) Gavriel Bach in an interview which appears in the program. When asked if there was any moment in the trial that affected him more than any other, this is the moment he describes.

Bach was questioning Dr. Martin Földi, a survivor of Auschwitz, about the selection process at the train station in the shadows of the famous “Arbeit Macht Frei”sign at Auschwitz. Földi described how he and a son went to the right while a daughter and his wife went to the left. His little daughter wore the red coat. When an SS officer sent the son to join the mother and daughter, Földi describes his panic. How would the boy,only twelve,find them among the thousands of people there? But then he realized the red coat would be like a beacon for the boy to join his mother and sister.

He then ends his testimony with the chilling phrase, “I never saw them again.”

In the program, while telling the story, thirty-five years after the incident, Judge Bach wells up with emotion. As Dr. Földi recounted the incident, Bachbecame frozen and unable to continue. All he could do was think about this own daughter who he had by chance just bought a red coat. He then adds that to this day he can be at the theater or a restaurant and he will feel his heart beating faster when he sees a little girl in a red coat.

This is a moving story. I wonder if it was exploited in Don't Look Now (1973).

But regarding Auschwitz, I think everything is admissable that'll highlight the evil of nazism. What is in bad taste is a film like Night Porter (1974) that seeks soft porn titillation at the victims expense.

Ed Wood's Glen or Glenda- Satan dancing around, a herd of buffalo stampeding, Bela Lugosi with skeletons around him. All goes on and on. This one takes the cake.

The meaning is very clear. He wants you to beware the green dragon.

Rob Zombies white horse

Foreshadowing of Willem Defoe playing Christ in Martin Scorseses movie.

>>22
I haven't seen the movie, but this shot is very famous and I'm pretty sure this is supposed to make him appear as a martyr, so not meaningless at all.

I'm all for pretentious fake symbolism. I think there's plenty of merit in inserting an image or symbol into a film just because its neat.

Man of Steel, anyone? I wouldn't call it fake, per se (the intent is quite clear), but boy is it hammy.

Not sure what symbolism there was in Man Of Steel. Could you be more specific ?

Oh, Snyder went "full retard" with the Christ metaphors: http://imageshack.com/a/img673/5692/cEolAV.jpg

Again, the meaning is quite clear and intentional. All Superman stories touch on the sacrifices Jor-El makes for humanity.

I don't ask much of people, only that they at least begin to think before speaking. You must feel comfortable in this thread, it's jam packed full of speaking without thinking.

I don't ask much of people, only that they at least begin to think before speaking.

= irony, given that, in my initial comment, I specified that I understood the meaning. Even in my follow-up response, it's clear that I'm not questioning the intent. So, I believe the word you're looking for is: Oops!

I question why you'd post your kneejerk reaction inappropriately in the thread "Meaningless Fake Symbolism in Movies".

I question why you'd post your kneejerk reaction inappropriately in the thread "Meaningless Fake Symbolism in Movies".

No, you didn't. You smugly accused me outright of making a specific criticism towards the film that I never actually stated. There's no backpedaling or sidewinding your way out of such by blurring the lines. Total misfire, plain and simple.

And regardless of the thread title, I already directly acknowledged as much and in turn demarcated my comments well enough for anyone reading before speaking could understand; generalized the discussion of dopey symbolism a bit, yes, but not randomly or out of some kneejerk reaction. To reiterate, my problem was not with the meaning in Snyder's symbolism but the execution.

I thought, watching MOS,"Hey,Zack,you know it might work better if it was a little bit subtle,and,anyway, the Chris Reeves Superman films (the first two,at least) worked fine without any Christ symbolism (which is not used in the comics,much,anyway).

I prefer the "Despite being or Kryptonian origin, Superman is basically Clark Kent, a nice kid from Kansas,trying to use his power for good and help people" version of Supes rather then the Savior from Space version.

Nothing about MOS is subtle. Why would the symbolism be?

Oh yeah it's heavy handed, but this thread is about symbolism that seem to have no meaning/don't fit with the actual story.

It's good that we have folks like you around to decide for us and various film directors what symbolism is meaningless and pretentious.

Thanks.

Except the whole point of the thread is to ask people which ones they consider meaningless and pretentious.

Some are just for fun, like the Freemasons symbolic in Magnolia it was just the DP that was reading a lot about them and wanted to insert some of them in the movie apparently.

I would guess that in video clip specially they do it a lot, insert some Egyptian or old imagery just for fun, but if the viewer don't know the symbolism it cannot work at all.

Elysium (2013) has the titular space station look like an inverted pentagram.

Because the space station and everything it represents is evil. It's ham-fisted symbolism, but you can't say it's not obvious.

What ? Since when is Jewish symbolism related to evil ?

>>39
a pentagram has nothing to do with jews, you unbelievable moron.

>>40
An inverted pentagram is a five-pointed star and a symbol of evil. A Star of David is six-pointed. The two are not related.

Whenever anon says a slapstick comedy is all about politics, I think, "This is meaningless, fake symbolism in the eyes of a moron".

I'm sure you know which movie I'm talking about

Ed Wood's Glen or Glenda- Satan dancing around, a herd of buffalo stampeding, Bela Lugosi with skeletons around him. All goes on and on. This one takes the cake.

Agreed 100%.Still trying to figure out what the hell all those stampeding Buffalo represent.

I'll have a shot of stampeding buffalos in my short movie. I hope it will be received better...

As someone else said, "Neon Genesis Evangelion". By the creator's own admission, too. However, that doesn't make it any less great or viscerally thrilling.