Why hasnt Germany made many decent horrors unlike say Spain,Italy,UK,France etc

Yeah, and why hasn't Zimbabwe, Bangladesh, and El Salvador made decent horrors like Spain, Italy, and France?

>>2
The direction went well. They hit a hitch....

Lemme get serious on the topic. Aside from Italy, no Euro country has had a large b-movie market for escapist entertainment. European films are mainly serious, artsy-fartsy, grim and gritty, and pretentious. Germany hasn't got on the ball because their films are just like other Euro films: they are made to be serious and intellectual and not escapist entertainment. It's hard for Germany to create a good horror because it doesn't have a b-movie market to draw on with tons of professionals and techniques to draw on. As a result, it's not surprising there aren't good horror from Germany.

On another note, Italy probably has more decent horror than other European countries combined. But whenever another Euro country makes a decent or semi-decent horror or two people tend to hype the country too much. When Let the Right One In came out I read many people saying, "The Swedes are leading the way in horror films better than any other country". Just from that one film the Swedes are leading the way? Same thing happened after Martyrs with France. I read so many people praising French horror as the best in the world. When I asked them for other French horror recommendations, they admitted they had seen only Martyrs or just one or two other French horror films. The French are leading the way after one or two films? After Dead Snow, it was the Norwegians who made the best horror. Again, just after that one film?

As much as I love italy horors I have to say
Spain uber Italy

What are you talking about? The vast majority of Spanish horror films are co-productions. Hell, many of them are co-productions with Italy.

I don't know how you can say Spanish horror is better than Italian horror. I'd say somewhere between 95-99% of all Spanish horror movies wouldn't exist if they weren't financed with money from foreign production companies (Italy probably produced most of them). Whereas, Italy doesn't need to say the same thing. Besides, many "Spanish horror movies" aren't Spanish at all. I've encountered people who think A Virgin Among the Living Dead and Faceless are Spanish simply because Jesus Franco directed them. They are not. They are French films.

How can Spanish horror be better than Italian horror when many Spanish horror movies were produced by Italy?

>>6
anon youre the guy that thinks the who is an american band right?

And that Hammer Horror films are American & that Alien isn't a USA | UK collaboration...

>>8
I seriously don't know what you're talking about.

the who! baba o reilly, horace the spider

Never listened to them.

lolwut?????????????????????????????

wasnt it boris the spider?

look whos crawling up my wall... booooooris the spiiiiiiider...

You are of course correct, I was thinking of an old video game

I also once saw them (thunderfingers singing) play 'boris the spider' in concert

did you did you did you?

did they play the seeker?

Whereas, Italy doesn't need to say the same thing.

Perhaps it's because Italy is hardly making any horror films these days? And by "these days" I'm thinking the last 20 yrs or so. I could be wrong, but nothing notable came out of there in a looong time!

How can Spanish horror be better than Italian horror when many Spanish horror movies were produced by Italy?

Are you sure it wasn't Zimbabwe or El Salvador?

The discussion was around Spanish and Italian horror as a whole. Not just "these days". Even today the vast majority of Spanish horror are co-productions such as Mama and the Orphanage. Unlike Spain, Italian horror has never needed co-productions with other countries to sustain their horror market. And, unlike Spain again, Italian horror has been innovative and influential on its own without international co-productions.

So I don't know how the OP can say Spanish horror trumps Italian when most Spanish horror has only come about due to co-productions (many of it--probably most--of them co-productions with Italy).

The discussion was around Spanish and Italian horror as a whole. Not just "these days".

I'm aware of that. I did, however, say that I'm including the last 20 yrs or longer. Surely, you know that if we're gonna talk about cinema as a whole, we must include "these days" as well.

Italian horror was big during the 70's-80's but disappeared under the radar gradually, unlike Spanish films which have thrived for the last few decades. (I just recalled on-two recent Italian splatters, but that's more of exception than a solid trend which would indicate the state of this country's cinematography)

So what if some of them are co-productions? You seem to choke on the subject, and if you think a Spanish film with Italian funding isn't Spanish anymore, it sure ain't Italian either. What about the crew, the director, actors and spoken language? These don't count?

You mentioned Mama and Orphanage. What about all the others? The percentage you speak of is too high, it would mean almost none of them are Spanish. But whose films are they? And, also, out of curiosity, I'd like a bigger list of non-Spanish Spanish films, if you'd be so kind.

In what way has Spanish horror thrived in the last few decades? Since 1990, Spain has made less than 12 horror films per year (I'm including co-productions). Some years there aren't any horror films from Spain at all. In the last 10 years alone Spain seems to have put out less than 30 horror films total. However, many of those movies considered horror by moviegoers are actually thrillers, like the Oxford Murders. And even if we include those thrillers, many of those thrillers and horror movies are terrible like Nameless with Anna Paquin.

So how can Spanish horror thrive when they have such a low quantity and quality of horror?

On your subject regarding co-productions: the crew, the director, the actors, and the language do not count because they had nothing to do with the movie being produced. Should Apocalypto be considered a Mayan movie because many of the cast were of Mayan descent and the language was Mayan? Should Valkyrie be considered German because many of the cast and crew were German and the movie was set in Germany?

Should Leon the Professional be considered American because the language was English, and many in the cast and crew were American?

How the hell do we determine if a movie is Spanish, Mayan, German, French, or American? By going by the cast, crew, language, and director? Or do we go by the nationality of the production company and producers were finance the whole thing?

The producers are the ones who hire the people to work on it. Doesn't matter if the director, cast, crew, or language differs from the nationality of the producers. The producers own the rights; finance the feature; have the final say; are responsible for hiring everyone involved; get the film distributed into theaters; get the DVD and BluRay into stores; and do a plethora of other things the people they hired are unable to do.

Therefore, since the production company is the one who decides the cast, crew, director, and language; finances the film; owns the rights; and gets the movie to the public, we should find out whether or not to call the film Spanish or French or whatever based on the nationality of the production company. Sometimes, there is more than one production company. In which case, it's called a co-production.

I've been saying this *beep* over and over. We go by who finances the film. That's how we figure out if the film is Spanish or not. I've haven't been saying anything that's complicated. It's as simple to understand as basic addition. Yet you guys are turning this into advanced calculus.

On your last paragraph: yes, many films people consider to be Spanish are not Spanish. For example, many of Jesus Franco's so-called Spanish films are produced by French production companies. Therefore, they are French films. As far as that bigger list of non-Spanish Spanish films, do you want them within the last 2 decades or include the 70s and 80s as well?

I've been saying this *beep* over and over. We go by who finances the film. That's how we figure out if the film is Spanish or not.

Who are "we"? I know I don't.
Look, I think you're the one who's making this more complicated than it should be. Besides, I really don't give a damn about who's behind the project, financially, nor does any horror fan, I should imagine! We care about story, director's previous work (for references), sometimes the cast, among other things. Never the producer/production company. But, I digress.

You are indeed playing the same record over and over again, perhaps you believe if you keep repeating something that's not the fact - but your own opinion - long enough: it will miraculously become one?

Nameless isn't with Anna Paquin, you're thinking of Darkness. Same director. And Nameless is great underrated film, as far as I'm concerned. Darkness is good, but fairly generic.

As far as that bigger list of non-Spanish Spanish films, do you want them within the last 2 decades or include the 70s and 80s as well?

As many as you can come up with, all included, thanks!

Look, I think you're the one who's making this more complicated than it should be. Besides, I really don't give a damn about who's behind the project, financially, nor does any horror fan, I should imagine! We care about story, director's previous work (for references), sometimes the cast, among other things. Never the producer/production company. But, I digress.

No horror film fan gives a damn about who's behind the project? Then you must not have seen all those posts from other people arguing with me about whether or not Hammer films, Alien, and other movies were American? Is that right?

But wait, you wrote this:

So what if some of them are co-productions? You seem to choke on the subject...

If you know I "seem to choke on the subject", then you must have seen all those posts from horror fans who made a big deal about whether or not Hammer, Alien, and other movies were American films. Not only did these horror fans give a damn about whose behind the project by making posts, they made threads to argue with me about it.

So how can you say you don't think horror fans give a damn about who's behind a project when you saw dozens of horror fans arguing with me about that very same topic?

Secondly, if you really don't give a damn whose behind a project, you wouldn't be arguing with me about it. Quit bull *beep* me.

Lastly, I'll give you my that list of non-Spanish Spanish films later.

The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
Fistful of Dollars
For a Few Dollars More

Were co produced by Germany and Spain...

Update.. So They are not Italian films at all...

What do Spaghetti Westerns have to do regarding the discussion of German and Spanish horror?

By the way, Jolly Film (an Italian production company) co-produced Fistful, and the other two were co-produced by Produzioni Europee Associati, another Italian production company. And Italians were the producers. So I don't know how you can say they are not Italian at all.

Like I said before, no wonder you get confused because you fail to understand things that can be proven even with miniscule research.

Arturo González Producciones Cinematográficas, S.A [es]

anna paquin wasnt in the nameless. i guess you mean darkness, also by jaume balagueró. the first one based on an excellent novel by british writer ramsey campbell.

Even today the vast majority of Spanish horror are co-productions such as Mama and the Orphanage.

The Orphanage

Director: J.A. Bayona - Spain
Writer: Sergio G. Sánchez - Spain
Country: Spain
Language: Spanish
Special Effects: Efe-X - Spain

Production Companies.

Esta Vivo! Laboratorio de Nuevos Talentos - Spain
Grupo Rodar - Spain
Rodar y Rodar Cine y Televisión - Spain
Telecinco Cinema - Spain
Telecinco - Spain
Televisió de Catalunya (TV3) - Spain
Wild Bunch - Spain
&
Warner Bros. Pictures de España (for distribution rights)

Distribution Rights.

A legal agreement that allows a person or company to sell another company’s products or services in a particular area or country..

Cambridge Business English Dictionary

How much more Spanish do you want this film to be?

Warner Bros. Espana still helped produce the movie. Do you know anything about film distribution? The film distributors have a huge say in how a movie is produced. Know why? Because they are the ones who have to sell the movie to cinemas and other retailers. The cinemas and retailers are the ones who read the market the most. These retailers tell the distributors what works best for the market.

Do you really think the financing Warner Bros. Espana played in getting this movie to be a global success was miniscule? Get real. Warner Bros.' powerful global distribution arm had a huge hand in the Orphanage's international success.

Secondly, the Wild Bunch is a French production company. No wonder my whole talk about distribution confuses you. You have no idea who produces what and you make significant mistakes that can be easily caught with the tiniest bit of research.

Stop wasting my time.

You have officially made it to the top 5 dumbest people to ever post on the [i]/tele/[/i] board, congratulations!

No matter where you go, there you are.

In what way was my post dumb?

This part here.

Warner Bros. Espana still helped produce the movie. Do you know anything about film distribution? The film distributors have a huge say in how a movie is produced. Know why? Because they are the ones who have to sell the movie to cinemas and other retailers. The cinemas and retailers are the ones who read the market the most. These retailers tell the distributors what works best for the market.

Do you really think the financing Warner Bros. Espana played in getting this movie to be a global success was miniscule? Get real. Warner Bros.' powerful global distribution arm had a huge hand in the Orphanage's international success.

Secondly, the Wild Bunch is a French production company. No wonder my whole talk about distribution confuses you. You have no idea who produces what and you make significant mistakes that can be easily caught with the tiniest bit of research.

Stop wasting my time.

In what way is pointing out that Warner Bros. had a huge hand in the film's success dumb? In what way is pointing out that the Wild Bunch is French, not Spanish, dumb?

Oh and this part here.

?Warner Bros. Espana still helped produce the movie. Do you know anything about film distribution? The film distributors have a huge say in how a movie is produced. Know why? Because they are the ones who have to sell the movie to cinemas and other retailers. The cinemas and retailers are the ones who read the market the most. These retailers tell the distributors what works best for the market.

Do you really think the financing Warner Bros. Espana played in getting this movie to be a global success was miniscule? Get real. Warner Bros.' powerful global distribution arm had a huge hand in the Orphanage's international success.

Secondly, the Wild Bunch is a French production company. No wonder my whole talk about distribution confuses you. You have no idea who produces what and you make significant mistakes that can be easily caught with the tiniest bit of research.

Stop wasting my time

the Wild Bunch is a French production company. No wonder my whole talk about distribution confuses you. You have no idea who produces what and you make significant mistakes that can be easily caught with the tiniest bit of research.

The tiniest bit of research says..

Wild Bunch [es] - Spain

http://anon.4ct.org/?https://archive.today/UZjtE

Stop wasting my time. Lol...

Bump..

Okay. This time, I won't blame you. Because you have to do more than the tiniest bit of research to find out that the Wild Bunch involved in this was indeed the French production company.

Here is info on the Wild Bunch stating that it's a Paris-based French film company:

http://anon.4ct.org/?https://archive.today/DHg9Q

On the top right or the bottom left, you'll find links to their website. Let's go to the "About Us" section:

Wild Bunch international sales activities are part of Wild Bunch SA, an independent Paris-based European film distribution and production services company that manages a library of more than 1.700 films.

http://anon.4ct.org/?https://archive.today/9AzDm

Yep. It's the same French film company.

Let's go directly to their films section, specifically to films starting with the letter "O".

http://anon.4ct.org/?https://archive.today/Dox5u

Tell me, what film do you see in that line-up?

I'll give you a hint. It starts with the letter "O" and rhymes with Horphanage. Go ahead. Take your time to find the film. I'll just wait here patiently. *twiddles thumbs*

From the Wiki link you posted.

Worldwide

Apart from its international sales activities, Wild Bunch is also a direct distributor in Italy (BiM Distribuzione[1]), in Germany (Wild Bunch Germany[2] / Central Film) and in Spain (Vertigo Films[3]).

What's so funny?

Do you know anything about film distribution? The film distributors have a huge say in how a movie is produced. Know why? Because they are the ones who have to sell the movie to cinemas and other retailers. The cinemas and retailers are the ones who read the market the most. These retailers tell the distributors what works best for the market

The Orphanage is a Spanish film regardless of all that. Warner just sold it after it had already been made.

Distribution Rights.

A legal agreement that allows a person or company to sell another company’s products or services in a particular area or country..

The Orphanage Produced by

Belén Atienza - line producer - Spain
Álvaro Augustín - producer - Spain
Guillermo del Toro - executive producer - Mexico
Sandra Hermida - line producer - Spain
Elena Manrique - line producer - Spain
Joaquín Padró - producer - Spain
Mar Targarona - producer - Spain

Director: J.A. Bayona - Spain
Writer: Sergio G. Sánchez - Spain
Country: Spain
Language: Spanish
Filming Location - Spain
Special Effects: Efe-X - Spain

Production Companies.

Esta Vivo! Laboratorio de Nuevos Talentos - Spain
Grupo Rodar - Spain
Rodar y Rodar Cine y Televisión - Spain
Telecinco Cinema - Spain
Telecinco - Spain
Televisió de Catalunya (TV3) - Spain

Do you really think the financing Warner Bros. Espana played in getting this movie to be a global success was miniscule? Get real. Warner Bros.' powerful global distribution arm had a huge hand in the Orphanage's international success.

Warner Bros.' powerful global distribution arm can shove it up the ass of Wild Bunch as far as this conversation goes.. Since when did box office success have anything to do with the true nationality of a film? Telecinco (Spain) also had a lot to do with the box office success of this film and they actually invested in it from the start..

1. Where is your evidence that Warner Bros. didn't have anything to do with production?

2. Wild Bunch is still a French film company. They had a hand in the production. According to the link you, personally, provided previously, both Warner Bros. and Wild Bunch had a hand in production. That would mean it's a Spanish/French/American co-production.

3. Until you have evidence that this was not a Spanish/French/American co-production, there's no need to you to respond to me.

4. Don't make another idiotic thread about me again.

1. Where is your evidence that Warner Bros. didn't have anything to do with production?

producers

Belén Atienza - line producer - Spain
Álvaro Augustín - producer - Spain
Guillermo del Toro - executive producer - Mexico
Sandra Hermida - line producer - Spain
Elena Manrique - line producer - Spain
Joaquín Padró - producer - Spain
Mar Targarona - producer - Spain

http://anon.4ct.org/?https://archive.today/6A4oU

In February 2007, the producers of The Orphanage went to the European Film Market in Berlin, looking for distributors. At the time, Guillermo del Toro’s six Oscar nominations for Pan’s Labyrinth was causing quite a stir, and anything bearing his name was music to the ears of distributors around the world. The Orphanage was snatched up and pre-sold in 10 countries, despite Rodar y Rodar having only presented a small, albeit stunning, trailer. The media proceeded to spread the news of this success, and thus the promotional buzz began.

Also crucial to the film’s success was the participation of Telecinco and Warner Bros. As coproducer, Telecinco had an obvious vested interest in the movie being a success, since return on its investment would depend on that. The broadcaster cooperated with the movie's marketing directors, which translated into an aggressive TV ad campaign, with commercials at every break and constant references to the movie during its most popular shows. The distributor, Warner Bros., also poured three million euros into its promotion, an amount that far exceeded the overall budgets of most Spanish productions

http://anon.4ct.org/?https://archive.today/6A4oU

In 2007, for the first time in many years, the top-grossing movie of the year in Spain was a homegrown production. The Orphanage, a tightly budgeted horror movie, raked in nearly 25 million euros and attracted more than four million moviegoers. The film’s producers, Joaquín Padró and Mar Targarona, were as surprised as anyone. Virtually overnight, the movie’s success made its production company, Rodar y Rodar, the focus of the entire film industry.

The strength of the script, along with the director’s passion and personal background, were enough to get two heavyweight players to come on board: The award-winning Mexican filmmaker Guillermo del Toro signed up as executive producer, and the celebrated Spanish actress Belén Rueda agreed to play the leading lady.

This combination of factors led everyone to be fully dedicated to the project and feel a sense of ownership in it

Where is your evidence that Warner Bros. did have anything to do with production?

Where is your evidence that Warner Bros. did have anything to do with production?

The link you posted said Warner Bros. was involved with the production. I didn't post the link. You did. Now, we have two options here:

1. The link you posted is telling the truth and Warner Bros. was involved with production.

2. The link you posted is not telling the truth and you're trying present false evidence to bicker with me over this. In which case, I don't have any reason to believe any more links you post because you could end up disregarding those links as well.

3. You are talking Utter bollocks..

4. Tell us why The Orphanage is ANY kind of film other than a Spanish one.... ( (Based on reality)

5. The link you posted is not telling the truth..

anon also thinks that eating sticks of butter is healthy.

^This.

Spain has had a steady stream of good horror films for a while, since the 70's at least (though often in collaboration with Italy, Mexico, France, the U.S., or Argentina).

Of course the U.K. is in Europe, though most folks from the U.K. think of the Celtic isles as a separate area from mainland Europe (I wonder if Scandinavia is somewhat similar in that respect; I know Russia is similar in feeling separate).

TONS of great horror & exploitation films from France/Belgium - and French/Belgian filmmakers - this side of the new millennium: Alexandre Aja (Haute Tension, The Hills Have Eyes, Mirrors, Piranha), Pascal Laugier (Martyrs, Tall Man, St. Ange), Bustillo/Maury (Inside, Livide, Among the Living), Gaspar Noe (I Stand Alone, Irreversible), Michael Haneke (Funny Games, Hour of the Wolf, The Piano Teacher), Calvaire, Ils, Trouble Every Day, Frontiere(s), Baise Moi, etc. Italy's been relatively slack for ages.

Whoa! You just listed a lot of crap. Michael Haneke? Calvaire? Trouble Every Day? So much garbage there.

to each his (or her) own. don't dig haneke's more overtly horror-ish films (benny's video, funny games), but ever since cache, he's been on a *beep* ROLL. the white ribbon and amour are amazing - went to the theater two days in a row to watch and rewatch the latter. calvaire and trouble every day score high on the short list of my 21st century favorites, genre notwithstanding. so, you know, tomayto, tomahto...

With France at least it was more than one genre flick they made..Martyrs, Frontier(s),Irreversible, Ils, Les Revenants, High Tension, Baise Moi, Interieur which lead to the belief that they were spearheading some sort of revolution

I think these Euro horrors are curiousities and in no way a challenge to the US and Asian domination of the genre

I agree that they tend to be more serious - possibly because they have a much smaller film industry but they still produce light hearted fluff - Populaire a period French rom-com is a good example and those James Bond spoofs

One interesting thing to note, that after the initial silent and black and white German horror and dark fantasy films of the early 1900's until the 30's, the modern era of German horror is mostly known for cheesy splatter flicks.

^ Exactly what I was thinking. Jorg Buttgereit, Andreas Schnass, Olaf Ittenbach, Andreas Marschall and one-offs like Rammbock argue for a healthy German horror (or at least gore) culture.

Zombie Doom aka Violent Sh!t 3 was epic.

Yeah the german stuff has been some violent & gory *beep* ( but *beep* also )

Good point.
I've not pursued German films much, the most popular ones are usually extreme flicks.
They've done some decent non horror films, thrillers and dramas/fantasies. I'd recommend:

The Silence (2010)
Requiem (2006)
The Door (2009)

Horrors I liked/kinda liked

Rammbock (2010)
Hell (2011) Surprisingly decent horror/scifi

I don't think it's the war, a long time has passed since, but it might have influenced their cinematography some. I think exploitation/torture flicks simply find their way to the fans much quicker than any other subgenre and is most popular at the moment. Just like French extreme wave from couple of years back. Although, the latter seems to be lot more stylish and quality filmmaking.

I'm not sure and I hear you on this but when they're good, they're actually really good.
I'd recommend Antikorper/ Antibodies (2008) if you haven't seen it yet, it's a nicely dark and twisted serial killer horror.
http://anon.4ct.org/?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-BmXkUSaXo (no subs unfortunately)
Also, Norman Reedus bizarrely pops up in it as a German cop.[odd]
http://anon.4ct.org/?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94J9kc-srEc

Another really good one is The Last Employee (2010) which sadly still appears to be unreleased.
http://anon.4ct.org/?https://archive.today/7UG0R

Another decent one from memory is Tattoo (2002) although it needs a revisit.
http://anon.4ct.org/?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4Oc1KV_IC8
(again, no subs)

Btw and completely OT, I was well impressed with Housebound (2014)from your neck of the woods. It won the Dead by Dawn festival prize for best film and was a thoroughly enjoyable and entertaining film.
http://anon.4ct.org/?https://archive.today/oT0gj

Only German horror film I've seen is Nekromantik by that aforementioned Buttfocker guy.

One of the few films that I couldn't sit through.

heh, butfokker.

The Brits used to make great horror movies back in the 60s. Other than that, can't think of any other European country that made horror movies I actually like.

There is always Uwe Boll.

Depends what you mean by many I guess.

Nosferatu
Nosfertau the Vampyre
The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari
Golum
Waxworks
Hands of Orlac
Vampyr
Mark of the Devil
Schramm
Nekromantik 1 and 2
Cannibal
Vampyros Lesbos
Rammbock
Even Dwarfs Started Small

Nosferatu the Vampyre
The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari
Mark of the Devil

I'm gonna contradict myself and say I've seen these ones, too.

Cause of the wars? Or something else

I blame...

http://anon.4ct.org/?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAVrCsFEaI0

Germany makes a lot of low-budget ultra splatter.

Directors include:
Andrea Schnaas
Timo Rose
Olaf Ittenbach
Andreas Bethmann
Jorg Buttgereit
Marcel Walz
Marian Dora

Watch either We Are The Night or Nosferatu The Vampire. While they are both vampire films, they take the genre and do everything they can to make it entertaining.

I think my favorite German horror movies are Flashback (2000) and School's Out (1999). I rate them both 9/10.

They went through the Nazi regime which tore them apart when they should have been continuing to make good movies to exercise their imaginations. Afterwards, they had to piece their culture back together from scratch pretty much.

Not a horror director, but a Bavarian, Werner Herzog, said that the Germans of his generation (coming of age in the 1950s and 1960s, with parents in WWII), had no fathers, only grandfathers.

Their grandfathers would have been directors like Weine, Lang and Murnau-- all fantastic fantastique filmmakers. But, after the war, when their grandchildren picked up cameras again, it had to be with a self-conscious, serious, and socially-driven approach. Now, there are many, many, exceptions to what I've just said. But, still, it's how I look at it, overall.