Anyone familiar with phenny? I started taking this to help me deal with benzo and alcohol withdrawal and it was a life saver. On top of helping with the withdrawal it made me extremely social, happy, energetic, mentally sharper, ect. It's some amazing shit but even after reading all of the warnings and horror stories online I took it every day like a fucking moron and now I am addicted and my tolerance is high so it just makes me feel "normal" and helps me sleep now. Its such a damn shame because it had so much potential. Anyways, has anyone else had a problem with phenibut addiction? any advice on how to withdrawal easier would be great

in benzo withdrawal now, what is that shit?

i heard that's common with benzo withdrawal, people switch to another drug.

maybe go to a doctor and get some advice?

>>1
IF you're switching to another GABAerginic drug (which phenibut is) you're just prolonging an eventual horrendous w/d.

You're probably going to have to figure out how to ween yourself off this one on your own. Your dr won't know much about phenibut, unless you explain it to him and try and get on a long acting benzo.

>>3
phenibut mostly effects GABAb while benzos effect mostly GABAa, so yeah its really similar but not exactly the same. It can prolong the withdrawal but i am past the acute stage now and this shit has been a godsend. i just wish i would have treated it with more respect. the withdrawal is a lot like benzo withdrawal but i heard it only last for a couple weeks. i will try to taper off but i am not looking forward to it

>>4
apparently it is similar to baclofen...

what benzos were you on and what dose?

>>2
phenibut can be bought legally online. its cheap as fuck and will make life a hell of a lot more bearable if you are having benzo withdrawal. its amazing in general. just dont do what i did if you do try it. never take it more than 2 or 3 days without at least a 4 day washout. thats harder than it sounds though when you are using it to treat withdrawal because this shit makes you feel amazing and its so hard to stop taking it and go back to feeling terrible

>>5
i took basically all benzos. whatever i could get my hands on. the last year or so i mostly took diazepam because i had a steady supply. roughly 80-150mg a day

>>4
just curious, i'm not going to mess with anything.

benzo withdrawal has been the worst drug withdrawal i've ever done. shit is relentless, so, i completely sympathize with you getting hooked on something else...
>>6
Damn! I was at 40mg a day and thought I was high. How fast did you withdrawal?

... I should also add it took 70mg of amphetamines to keep me walking while I was on 40mg of diazepam... heh.

>>7
i dont blame you. benzos are widely thought to be the worth drugs to withdrawal from. when i was in detox i looked at heroin addicts as total pussies. i had several grand mal seizures and almost died. i would ask them what their opiate withdrawal is like and they would say like having a bad flu for a few weeks. really? you stole your moms car and jewelry so that you wouldnt feel like you have the fucking flu?

yeah i was taking a lot but i have known dudes who take up to 1000mg a day. i had no choice but to quit cold turkey. american doctors are really ignorant about benzo withdrawal and despite the fact that it can be fatal i couldnt find one to help me. all i got was anti seizure meds. it was the hardest thing i ever went through hands down. i dont think i will ever be my normal self again

>>7
i also quit alcohol cold turkey at the same time after many years of drinking heavily every day.

>>8
I've never withdrawn from heroin so don't know those feelz.

american doctors are really ignorant about benzo withdrawal and despite the fact that it can be fatal i couldnt find one to help me

Yeah, it's strange but doctors generally don't know shit about benzos. I'm surprised as they are so commonly prescribed.

...

alcohol withdrawal is a lot like benzo withdrawal, right?

>>10
yeah. a psychiatrist in detox said that benzos are basically alcohol in pill form. they effect the brain in the same way. now i occasionally drink but i dont worry about it becoming a problem again because i fucked up my GABA receptors so bad that the anxiety the next day is so terrible that its not worth it to drink very often

>>2
Dude. Please just ride it out. Don't substitute something else. For me, the painful/numb feeling in my hands and feet were awful but they go away eventually. All the symptoms do.

>>11
Yeah, I think once I'm done tapering off the benzos I'm going to completely avoid alcohol. I think I'm fucked up those receptors enough to last two lifetimes.
>>12
yea, that's what i'm doing. It's hell, but, i know if I substitute anything I'll just have to withdrawal from that. fml.

i'm right there with you, op. I went CT off of 2 mg klonopin/day. 12 year habit, up to 4/day but tapered to 2 and then jumped. Hallucinated for months. No seizures. Like coming up on acid. horrible stomach pains, muscle spasms. total depersonalization (head was floating above my body for months).

also jumped from 30 mg baclofen (12 years same dose)

started phenibut after about 6 months. Felt good for about a month and get nothing off of it. the withdraws are wayyy worse than baclofen (though it's hard to imagine the 30 mg baclofen a day competes with 5-10 g/day I take of phenibut)

tapering is near impossible because the shit hits so weirdly. same dose different everything from dose to dose

what's your plan? I'm @ 6 mo. and trying to make a go of a taper...

>>13
I know what you're going through and you need to know that you can do it.

I know it sucks, but it will go away eventually. Try to do as much physical activity as you can, no matter how little it may be.

>>15
cheers m8. i'm almost done with the actual taper, I hope after I'm done things start to get better.

I've been getting out, walking a bit. It's hard, I'm really light sensitive and I can't stop shaking. I've been shaking to some degree for months. I look like a broken refrigerator.

>>16
>>15
also it feels like a fucking lion is chasing me I'm so anxious. heh.

>>1
ween yourself of slowly OP otherwise you will be in a world of trouble, I myself have never used phenibut but have considered it, what benzos and how much are you trying to avoid yourself from? but seriously op just lower your dosage week by week so you don't end up in the hospital

>>14
Taper works. Everyone has the will to do it. Don't think you can't.

>>14 i know exactly what you mean with those symptoms. i feel like i survived a war or some shit. its impossible to explain how traumatic it is to anyone who hasnt been there. my roomie in detox was an actual fucking circus clown (he didnt wear the makeup) and he loved fucking with me when i was hallucinating. he knew all these magic tricks and shit and would pull random objects like notebooks and shit out of thin air while he was talking and then act like he didnt know what i was talking about when i asked where it came from, making me feel even crazy lol that fucker

i have no plan as of yet. i am trying to not up my dose right now. eventually i guess i will taper off and just deal with the suck. probably take a shitload of valerian root with passion flower to try to ward off the panic attacks a little

>>16
The shaking and anxiety suck too. Honestly, the anxiety and anything associated with it is what lasts the longest. It was the absolute worst when I was just laying there thinking about how awful it is. I swear..I did it, so can you.

>>20

valerian root

I talked to my doctor about using things to help with the withdrawals, from herbal things to pain killers, and really what he said is you just have to tough it out one way or anther.

Even over the counter stuff is still a 'drug' if that makes sense.
>>21
Thanks, appreciate the encouragement.

Yeah, I expect the anxiety to stick around to some degree, since that's why I originally went on them.

The treatment was worse than the disease tbh.

Did you feel like you got stronger from the withdrawal mentally? I'm hoping I learn something from all this...

>>22
OP here, not the dude who said that, but i feel stronger in some ways. i too started taking benzos to deal with anxiety and panic attacks but after the horrible panic attacks i went through during acute withdrawal i feel like i can handle a lot more. my "normal" panic attacks have lost their edge. its still not fun but i can cope with them much better. doctors are fucking drug dealers IMO. benzos arent really meant to be taken long term. they are great for things like fear of flying or the dentist ect. but doctors hand out scripts to these fuckers like its nothing and them abruptly cut you off. i got no warning at all about how addictive they are. he just wrote me a script and said "take these 3 times a day". then when i got addicted he cut me off without a taper plan. when i was psychotic from the withdrawal i seriously plotted going into his office and killing him and then myself

>>22
Pretty much that I can fucking do anything no matter how shitty I feel. Nothing will ever compare to that shitty few months where it was just day in and day out of fighting myself. There's nothing worse than denying yourself something that will make you stop living in hell that you know you could just easily get. Pretty much like the one guy up there said (idk if it was you) it was like war. Just constant. Seemingly neverending. And then one day I woke up and said wow I feel good enough to get out of bed and take a shower. To make myself something to eat. To walk up the block and back. It was like having to learn to be a normal human being again.

>>23

he just wrote me a script and said "take these 3 times a day". then when i got addicted he cut me off without a taper plan.

I hate myself for not educating more on benzos before I got hooked on them. I trusted these psychiatrist doctors, and, it ended up really fucking me. I'll always do lots of research in the future now, and the doctor who has been helping me get off the benzos would review any drug another doctor might try to put me on the future.

when i was psychotic from the withdrawal i seriously plotted going into his office and killing him and then myself

Haha, I threatened to kill my doctor too. My memory is really foggy, but I think I was going to beat him with a pipe or something? I have no idea I was in withdrawal and so fucked up haha. he's lucky, in hindsight I was so fucked up I might have done something stupid.
>>24
That's comforting. Yeah, I've been in a semi-panic state for so long I'm hoping my body built up some resistance.

I just want to reiterate before this thread dies or I fall asleep.. that any of you going through any kind of withdrawal can do it. I did both opiate and benzo withdrawal (separately at different times). Both can be done. It's not a disease.. You're not powerless. That's all bullshit: when you kick it, you will hate the way drug addiction is dealt with here. The entire rehab system is set up to make you fail.

Stay strong.

>>26
thanks /lounge/r. i totally agree about rehab too. AA and NA is such a fucking joke. its a cult. i was asked to leave a meeting because i kept arguing with them. i said something along the lines of "telling a bunch of addicts that they are powerless and have to give themselves over to a higher power is a fucking horrible thing to say. you should be teaching inner strength and coping skills instead of trying to recruit people to your religion"

taper off, taper off, best advise ever, if you go cold turkey, you will end up in hospital or worse

stupid computer died...
>>19
i meant physically not mentally. yeah tapers suck, but phenibut doesn't lend itself to tapering too well. short half life and it hits inconsistently. 3 doses a day might go nothing nothing wasted one day and then little bit little bit little bit the next. and then wasted/little bit/can't sleep on the third day.

it's too inconsistent to decrease slowly without needing to re-dose some days
>>20
way worse than heroin (1 year IV) or opium (3 years). I'll take opiate w/d any day

can't say much that you haven't about the symptoms

>>27
It's true. You are taking back control.

They ask you to hand over the control you desperately need to someone else. Defeating the whole purpose of getting your shit together.

It makes no sense. I just hope other people read what I say and know they can do it. I know it's corny and I'm saying it over and over but honestly, "I can't do this" was something I screamed outloud dozens of times as I scratched down my neck wanting to pull my muscles through my skin. Ended up I could. I just want to convey that as much as possible.

I just started taking Baclofen this week, was looking for it's anxiolytic properties, but have found it causing more depressive symptoms? Any ideas why?

>>31
I'd basically expect that with Baclofen or any anxiolyic.

Baclofen/Lorisal was some serious shit.

>>1
Okay op listen. Buy phenylpiracetam. It does basically the same as phenibut, so you can alternate between the two; reducing your tolerance along the way. I eat the shit up & I've found that tolerance only becomes a problem after months of constant use

That reminds me! I need to order some more. I've gone through a whole box (order from rx_rex, he's very reliable) over the last couple months. What do you want to know?

I take ~50mg (1/4 of a 200mg pill) to remain focused throughout the day, and accomplish menial tasks that I'd otherwise have a lot of difficulty focusing on. 100mg and I'm buzzing and very focused, but a bit of anxiety sets in. 200mg is probably too much - no increased focus but additional anxiety. It's a very useful drug that helped me get a huge assignment done in a few days.

Only disadvantages really are that tolerance builds up quite quickly - you don't wanna take it every day. You'll need to space it apart by a few days to maximise effect per dosage. Also, it tends to give me the shits, makes me thirsty, and gives me a headache, but those side effects are relatively mild